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Post by tanito on Feb 23, 2023 8:31:17 GMT
Hi everyone! This forum is super helpful, thanks to everyone who contributes to it.
I was told by the recruiter that I will receive an offer in the coming days/weeks. However, after reading several threads here I am quite reluctant to take it regardless of how much they pay. Am I focusing too much on the negative aspects? Are there reasons to walk away from a good job, with a well known company, where I have a good reputation? Basically, what I read here:
• Taking a job with Saudi Aramco equals to committing professional suicide. You will never get promoted.
• You will work for incompetent managers and your work environment will be extremely dependent on how lucky you are with having a nice manager (maybe this is not exclusive of Aramco though).
• Don’t expect challenging tasks, you will be basically doing your manager’s work and be ready for a ‘yes, sir’ atude.
• You will live in a 70s style kind of house and will not be able to apply for something better for the first 2-3 years.
• There is the chance that the withdraw the offer once you have quit your current job.
All that on top of the extremely hot weather, living in a gated community and the bad reputation that KSA has in the West (not saying that it’s true).
In short, am I missing something? are there good reasons to take a job at Saudi Aramco and relocate in Saudi Arabia beyond the salary?
Thanks!
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Post by edmontonca on Feb 23, 2023 17:02:26 GMT
I am in the exact same boat with you..friend.
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Post by lookback on Feb 23, 2023 17:16:32 GMT
I hope some experienced one can say something about this topic and make us feel comfortable.
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OSD
Advanced Member
Posts: 53
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Post by OSD on Feb 23, 2023 17:51:52 GMT
Aramco can cancel the position at any time without official communication. Even all the contingencies cleared, visa stamped on passport, status shows position cancelled with no official letter. No official communication from recruiter despite repeated requests. Aramco not even officially withdraw the offer.
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tamsin
Senior VIP Expat
Posts: 655
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Post by tamsin on Feb 24, 2023 8:39:41 GMT
Hi everyone! This forum is super helpful, thanks to everyone who contributes to it. I was told by the recruiter that I will receive an offer in the coming days/weeks. However, after reading several threads here I am quite reluctant to take it regardless of how much they pay. Am I focusing too much on the negative aspects? Are there reasons to walk away from a good job, with a well known company, where I have a good reputation? Basically, what I read here: • Taking a job with Saudi Aramco equals to committing professional suicide. You will never get promoted. • You will work for incompetent managers and your work environment will be extremely dependent on how lucky you are with having a nice manager (maybe this is not exclusive of Aramco though). • Don’t expect challenging tasks, you will be basically doing your manager’s work and be ready for a ‘yes, sir’ atude. • You will live in a 70s style kind of house and will not be able to apply for something better for the first 2-3 years. • There is the chance that the withdraw the offer once you have quit your current job. All that on top of the extremely hot weather, living in a gated community and the bad reputation that KSA has in the West (not saying that it’s true). In short, am I missing something? are there good reasons to take a job at Saudi Aramco and relocate in Saudi Arabia beyond the salary? Thanks! 1. People do get promoted, it’s a slow beast and that is the nature of the region. But obviously you will only rise so far due to jobs moving over to Saudi nationals. People do tend to come and stay 20 years or arrive at the end of their careers once they’ve pretty much risen to their top level. And people still present, publish papers, have wider professional development within the industry. 2. That’s a risk anywhere, it’s certainly not a given here. 3. Depends on the department. Like anywhere. 4. the Hills is 80’s, main camp is older. Yes, bathrooms and kitchens are dated, but the bones of the houses are fine. Very neutral, easy to live in. They are a means to an end.They are incredibly cheap, even cheaper than the tax we had to pay on company housing in other countries. 5.That’s a risk, anywhere. We’ve known a few with different companies, one had their offer pulled whilst in the air to the location. It’s less of a gated community and more a small town, plenty to do if you choose or you can be private and less involved. The weather is hot, but like Houston, only really extreme in summer. The rest of the year is very pleasant. The reputation, well, living here is different to reading about here. It’s not a bad place to live. It’s easy, it’s safe, it’s a good place to raise children. The work/life balance is nice, there are few late nights, weekend working, long trips. But, I will say, we are in our 50s, spent the last 20 odd years overseas and our entire lives in oil towns so our expectations will be very influenced by those. I’d also bear in mind, that as in the way of any review, people with a negative take are more likely to share than those with a positive. There are about, I believe,10, 000 in Dhahran, they can’t all be miserable.
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ao
Member
Posts: 29
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Post by ao on Feb 24, 2023 11:40:14 GMT
Hi everyone! This forum is super helpful, thanks to everyone who contributes to it. I was told by the recruiter that I will receive an offer in the coming days/weeks. However, after reading several threads here I am quite reluctant to take it regardless of how much they pay. Am I focusing too much on the negative aspects? Are there reasons to walk away from a good job, with a well known company, where I have a good reputation? Basically, what I read here: • Taking a job with Saudi Aramco equals to committing professional suicide. You will never get promoted. • You will work for incompetent managers and your work environment will be extremely dependent on how lucky you are with having a nice manager (maybe this is not exclusive of Aramco though). • Don’t expect challenging tasks, you will be basically doing your manager’s work and be ready for a ‘yes, sir’ atude. • You will live in a 70s style kind of house and will not be able to apply for something better for the first 2-3 years. • There is the chance that the withdraw the offer once you have quit your current job. All that on top of the extremely hot weather, living in a gated community and the bad reputation that KSA has in the West (not saying that it’s true). In short, am I missing something? are there good reasons to take a job at Saudi Aramco and relocate in Saudi Arabia beyond the salary? Thanks! 1. People do get promoted, it’s a slow beast and that is the nature of the region. But obviously you will only rise so far due to jobs moving over to Saudi nationals. People do tend to come and stay 20 years or arrive at the end of their careers once they’ve pretty much risen to their top level. And people still present, publish papers, have wider professional development within the industry. 2. That’s a risk anywhere, it’s certainly not a given here. 3. Depends on the department. Like anywhere. 4. the Hills is 80’s, main camp is older. Yes, bathrooms and kitchens are dated, but the bones of the houses are fine. Very neutral, easy to live in. They are a means to an end.They are incredibly cheap, even cheaper than the tax we had to pay on company housing in other countries. 5.That’s a risk, anywhere. We’ve known a few with different companies, one had their offer pulled whilst in the air to the location. It’s less of a gated community and more a small town, plenty to do if you choose or you can be private and less involved. The weather is hot, but like Houston, only really extreme in summer. The rest of the year is very pleasant. The reputation, well, living here is different to reading about here. It’s not a bad place to live. It’s easy, it’s safe, it’s a good place to raise children. The work/life balance is nice, there are few late nights, weekend working, long trips. But, I will say, we are in our 50s, spent the last 20 odd years overseas and our entire lives in oil towns so our expectations will be very influenced by those. I’d also bear in mind, that as in the way of any review, people with a negative take are more likely to share than those with a positive. There are about, I believe,10, 000 in Dhahran, they can’t all be miserable. I like your positivity
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Post by tanito on Feb 24, 2023 20:15:02 GMT
Thanks everyone and particularly to tamsin for his/her insights, really, really helpful and encouing. I also found someone on LinkedIn who is working in the same department I would work, although in a more senior role, and who happens to come from the same company I work for now. I spoke with him today and was also very encouing: the job seems challenging and rewarding, and even though he acknowledged that there is some sort of ceiling glass, professional development and growth is completely feasible. We will never become EVPs, that's for sure, but most of us won't get that far in our current companies anyway. Personally I have a more positive atude towards the opportunity today .
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tamsin
Senior VIP Expat
Posts: 655
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Post by tamsin on Feb 24, 2023 22:12:19 GMT
You’re very welcome.
Also, bear in mind that this is a company that makes a lot of money, they can’t do that if everyone is incompetent and the work is stale . And they’d not be hiring you, with all the paperwork and cost that involves if you didn’t have what they wanted.
I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly for you, if you choose to take it.
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Post by bucaros on Feb 25, 2023 15:02:07 GMT
I'm in the exact same boat. Had interviews in January and waiting for conditional offer. I'm planning on declining it regardless of the money. My honest advice is try to talk in person to former expats. They might have very interesting opinions completely un-filtered from these forums. Bottom line is if you are a career oriented person or mid-career professional WALK AWAY! If you are in Houston feel free to send me a message and gab a coffee. I had exactly the same concerns you pointed here!,
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Post by tanito on Feb 25, 2023 16:19:14 GMT
Depends on your expectations, your age, your point in life, your approach to change, your family (does your wife have a career?), your patience to dealing with difficult situations etc.. Few other points: - This is Dhahran which is a backwater in the Middle East, not London or New York. - You cannot expect fairness or western business practices, remove any expectations of progression or climbing the corporate ladder through hard work, because as an expat there is none. - Aramco is just a money gig, if you are not making at least double what you are on then WALK AWAY. Don’t be fooled by the long term incentives or tax savings, it’s a false economy. - Pollution is an issue here, at least 6 months of the year are at hazardous levels. - Career progression is a dead end, no Expats are in even middle management roles - you’ll be working behind the scenes for a local who will take all of the credit for your efforts. - Professional development is also a joke, you’ll be stagnating, so this might be an issue if you are at that point in your career when you are still striving. - You will be working for management who mostly are really quite useless/arrogant and have never worked outside Aramco. This will be an issue if you value your work and sanity. - Very few expats stay beyond 2 years these-days. - There are now only around 2000 expats left in Dhahran and the numbers are falling, the camp is now a Saudi community. - Government policy means your job will be gone in a few years anyway, see Saudiziation. Don’t get me wrong, It works for some, especially those that are closer to retirement or without a working spouse. But it isn’t what it used to be in the past and the benefits are not even close to what Aramco used to pay. In that regard Aramco is a short term place to make some money then go elsewhere. You touched a point I am also very interested in…many mention we shouldn’t be fooled by the monthly premium and the low/no taxes and just compare salary to salary. I am not great with numbers or finance…what’s the logic behind it? I guess part of the money saved in taxes I will have to save it for my retirement, but other than that, why do you say that? In my (very simple) mind, it’s more about how much money I get in my account at the end of each month 🤨.
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Post by tanito on Feb 25, 2023 16:21:44 GMT
I'm in the exact same boat. Had interviews in January and waiting for conditional offer. I'm planning on declining it regardless of the money. My honest advice is try to talk in person to former expats. They might have very interesting opinions completely un-filtered from these forums. Bottom line is if you are a career oriented person or mid-career professional WALK AWAY! If you are in Houston feel free to send me a message and gab a coffee. I had exactly the same concerns you pointed here!, Thanks for commenting! In my case my wife is 99% no so we probably will stay, I am not going to try to convince her, it needs to be something we all want. I would love to speak with someone with the same doubts, but I am afraid I am based in Europe.
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Post by sajman on Feb 27, 2023 18:31:29 GMT
I guess it all depends as well on your reasons to join Aramco. If it is only for financial matters - no matter how much you are going to get, you will still find negatives and be somewhat pessimistic about all of this. For me personally - I would like to live in that area, middle east. I am originally from around that area and for me it will be easier to adapt. Those who are more used to american/european ways of living - it will be more difficult. Try to find something beyond financial compensation. If you are muslim, then I think it is a good bonus that you will be living in the same country where the Mecca is and you will have more opportunities to visit Mecca/Medina and enjoy athan all day long and many mosques (something that is not common in the west). If you are not muslim, then try to explore different cultures and heritages, ancient cities, different cuisines, make new friends... I know its easier said than done, but it is what it is.
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Post by StarboyX on Feb 27, 2023 21:26:27 GMT
I've been here for 6 years, and in that time, I've seen a lot of positive changes across Kingdom. It's unfortunate to see a lot of the negative comments posted, and I won't waste my time quoting anyone or giving my opinion. Best thing to do is visit on evisa prior to making any decisions. All the best!
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Post by obidient on Feb 28, 2023 1:43:49 GMT
If you have a good job, you better stay back. Alternatively, if you can take leave of absence from your job, you can come and try it and if you don’t like it, you go back to your work.
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samlia
Advanced Member
Posts: 65
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Post by samlia on Mar 2, 2023 20:47:18 GMT
I am in the exact same boat with you..friend. Only good thing is money and a little relaxed life if you are in office.
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