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Post by liko1001 on Apr 8, 2014 21:39:33 GMT
Dear all,
this forum has served me very well in getting an idea about work and life in Saudi Arabia.
I really appreciate everyone's input and experience and thank the moderators for doing their great job.
Now, the time has come for me to make serious decisions, as I received my offer by email yesterday. The offer is valid for another 6 days. Upon my acceptance the offer papers will be sent by mail.
In the email offer it states the position, but not the department I will work in.
Where will that information be written?
Regarding housing, it does not say which residence location I will be assigned to.
It only says "nearest to your work location depending on availability". Is that normal?
When in the process will the location be determined, or does that happen only upon arrival?
I cannot find the information that schooling is provided for my kids, neither in the offer itself nor in the payroll booklet provided as attachment; in the booklet, under "Dependent Education", it is mentioned that "Saudi Aramco provides assistance for the cost of education for your dependent children through the Educational Assistance Program ... which provides assistance for tuition, fees and books for both in-Kingdom and out-of-Kingdom boarding schools from K1 (age 4) through Grade 12 (or equivalent)".
What does that mean?
Does that include the Aramco schools on the compounds?
My kids are 3 and would need to go to Pre K3.
In the net earnings worksheet, under "Reference: EAP" all entries are 0.
I am really confused here.
Would it be possible to live off-compound but have the kids attend schools on the compound?
Where can I find this regulation, because I read in some posts that that is not possible.
Is the annual repatriation allowance a cash payment at my very own disposal, i.e. I decide where and when I go or not go? (in the payroll booklet it says "each authorized vacation travel allowance consists of a payment that covers a roundtrip airfare" => does that mean I need authorization to receive the allowance? Do I need to produce receipts? )
38 calendar days of vacation are mentioned. How does it work if you leave over the weekend? Is that also vacation or weekend?
Assuming I would accept the offer and start the BI and medical clearance and the visa application and everything goes fine, can I still pull out of the process?
If the compound situation is not sorted out before arrival, that is a potential deal breaker for my family.
Would stopping the process from my side would have any consequences?
(as I have to sign various documents like "Terms and Conditions of Indefinite Term Employment For Global Payroll Employees", "International Release of Information Authorization" and the health questionnaires and background information data sheet already now)
Would it be considered detrimental for another future application to Saudi Aramco?
Could you please help me out with my questions?
Time is running and I am in desperate need for help !!
Many many thanks to all of you !!
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Post by David_and_Nita on Apr 8, 2014 23:36:15 GMT
My answers. Unfortunately can't help with housing. We all want early housing assignments and though they used to define them up front they do not do that anymore.
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Nemo
Member
Posts: 41
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Post by Nemo on Apr 9, 2014 3:27:34 GMT
Liko1001,
The housing will be assigned to you way before you arrive, just ask your recruiter as they must know. Regarding school the rule is if you live in any aramco community your kids are enled to attend the aramco system, again confirm with your recruiter, but not worry too much about it, also you can apply for EAP, figures are not shown in the worksheet but you can ask your recruiter for an estimate.
The travel allowance is estimated based on your point of origin but it is a amount you could spend as you decide to, you have to wait until you have one year with the company and then you can apply for it, you don't need to present receipts, it is your money. The rules with respect to vacation days is 38 continuous days plus days of travel that will depend on your point of origin, it might be 2 or 4 additional days. You have to work the week before to add that weekend at no cost from your vacation time.
I think if you accept and then decide not to proceed it will be ok, I think the company will appreciate your decision before they move you over KSA than after.
I hope this could be helpful in your decision
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Post by vpainter on Apr 9, 2014 7:16:42 GMT
Housing is assigned the week of your arrival depending on availability. In the past when the compounds were not full, housing assignments were made in advance. Today, that is not the case. Housing in any particular compound is not guaranteed and non negotiable. You need to decide if you want to work for Aramco regardless of where you are housed. All part of the adventure. People living in the different Aramco compounds are mostly happy with where they live. Husbands who do a commute are not always happy with the commute, but most of the time, their families are happy with compound life. Some men get a chance to move to another compound and can not because their families are happy where they are and do not want to move. I have heard that from a couple of men who live in ABQ and work in DHA. Their wives and children do not want to move to DHA.
If your child is 3 years old. He/she will not be considered for the Aramco schools at this time. PreK3 and PreK4 is a you apply and pay a fee for it program offered by Aramco schools.
School information is only discussed in the offer when the kids are old enough for K-9 grades. The kids then have to be approved to attend the school. If you come when your kids are younger than kindergarten age, then your kids go to Aramco schools when they are old enough. The same with EAP; EAP is not discussed in your offer if your children are not old enough to be eligible for the program.
If you live off the Aramco compounds, your children will NOT be able to attend Aramco schools. You would need to make arrangement for your kids to attend one of the International Schools in the area and apply for EAP to help with tuition. EAP requires paperwork from the school showing your child is going to the school. So no discussion in advance.
Your department will let you know how they do their vacation times. Our department has everyone submit a tentative vacation schedule for the year in January. All vacation must be approved by the Supervisor/Manager of your department. Once the "when" is approved you can go where ever you'd like. Your repat vacation allowance is usually paid out 1 to 2 months in advance of your travel dates. Once you have received your money, you can do with it as you please. No receipts of use are needed.
Yes, you can pull out of the process at any time. Depending on what point you were in the process, it could possibly have a negative impact for future application.
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Post by UmmRiyam on Apr 9, 2014 17:29:36 GMT
We are only paying for K3, not K4. It's 825 riyals per month in Udhailiyah by payroll deduction. I am not sure if the fees are the same in the other Aramco K3 classes.
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Post by liko1001 on Apr 9, 2014 20:06:03 GMT
Thank you for your comments; it definitely helps a lot.
UmmRiyam, thanks for the info about the fee; first time that I see this number. Good to know, we got 2 kids.
vpainter, David_and_Nita thanks for your explanation. It is understood that housing is apparently dealt with now in a different way. That is indeed a big uncertainty as a potential future colleague in the department I'm supposed to work in strongly advised to reject if Abqaiq is on offer and not Dhahran or Rakah.
I was just wondering as I saw in a recent post in the RT group that someone wrote his offer stated both work location and assigned living location. That gets me confused now.
btw: will it say in paper contract that I am about to receive which department I will be working in? In the end - how I can be sure that I will work for what I was interviewed for? The job le is so generic it has got nothing to do with the job le from the vacancy.
Regarding pre K 3 / 4: is there a required vaccination list available somewhere, to get the extra shots in advance?
Regarding vacation, to get things straight two simple examples. Assuming weekend = Fri + Sat and work week = Sun - Thur:
1st example:
Sun, 1st: work
Mon, 2nd: work
Tue, 3rd: work
Wed, 4th: work
Thu, 5th: work, leave for holiday
Fri, 6th: away
Sat, 7th: away
Sun,8th: away
Mon, 9th: away
Tue, 10th: away
Wed, 11th: away
Thu, 12th: away
Fri, 13th: away
Sat, 14th: away
Sun, 15th: work
How many vacation days of the 38 do we have here?
I assume it's 7 vacation days (from Sun 8th to Sat 14th) with 9 days off (also Fri 6th and Sat 7th that both should not count as I worked the week before).
Is that how it works?
Assuming departure on Thu, 5th, after work - is it possible and accepted to leave earlier than 4 pm? Can these hours be made up by flexible working times the week before?
2nd example:
same as above until Sat 14th, but additional away days from Su 15th to Sat 21st, and work again on Sun 22nd.
How many vacation days would that be? 16?
I guess it works then in ogy if staying away for 3 weeks.
I have another important question: how is it dealt with if an employee gets ill and has to see a doctor or even stay at home?
Is this needed to be done outside work hours, if possible? Are the doctors available outside working hours?
Or is it accepted to go and see a doctor within working hours?
How about if one gets ill? Is a medical note required? For how long can one stay home?
(I assume this is not the "short-term disability" that is mentioned in the email offer, or is it?)
Thanks so much for your valuable and appreciated answers !
Sincerely, liko1001
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Post by vpainter on Apr 9, 2014 20:16:54 GMT
Please Read the First Discussion Group - Frequently Asked Questions - you will find school information there.
You can go see the doctor during the day. You can make appointments during the day and you can go to the walk in (Urgent Care) clinic during the day as needed. Doctors work 7am - 4pm just like you probably will. Of course you'll need to schedule your appointments around any meetings you'd be required to attend.
If you need to see a doctor after working hours the walk in clinic (Urgent Care) is open until evening hours. After that the emergency room is always open.
Your family doctor will write you a note if you need to be off work. You would be off work as long as the doctor says you will be off.
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Post by David_and_Nita on Apr 11, 2014 2:43:33 GMT
The rules are not that complicated and I think you have it.
If you work sun-thu and leave thu for vacation, your vacation days start on the next sun. So if you take the entire week off and start the following sunday, you have used 2 weekends and 5 workdays. Of the 9 days, you have used 7 vacation days and got the first weekend free. If you take another week then you have been off 16 total days and you will be dinged 14 vacation days.
Another example: If you work sun and take the rest of the week off, and return the following sunday, then you have taken off 4 work days and a weekend (off 6 days). Since you worked Sun, the first day of the week, that weekend is free and you will have used 4 vacation days (mon-thu).
OH For repat you get travel days. I think 2? 4? Might be based on your jump-off location. So add travel days to your 38 days, those are freebies too.
The couple times I visited the doctor I went to the clinic from work during working hours. I don't remember missing work or being off sick, but if I had needed to I would have just called in like I do here. Dunno what it would fall under, but we had a clerk who would enter the time wherever it was supposed to go LOL.
OH we did have a baby while we were there though. I always took off for my wife's appts to carry her to the doctor. They do an ultrasound every appt which was pretty cool.
Nobody cared about that or gave me any trouble about it.
Hope that helps.
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Post by O&GEngg on Apr 11, 2014 15:35:37 GMT
These vacation days have me kind of messed up. If the weekends are scheduled days off anyways for all employees why are we getting dinged for these days if we are on a vacation that goes more than a couple weeks? This doesn't make logical sense.
From the way I see it we are better of taking more frequent but shorter vacations throughout the year. If we take a longer vacation (say for a repat) to visit family we end up burning more days due to the weekends.
Maybe this is just a Canadian thing but if we get 3 weeks of vacation this means 15 working days. I naturally assumed (yes I know what ASSUME stands for) that we got 38 WORKING days with Saudi Aramco.
#NotCoolWithThis
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cgyguy
Advanced Member
Posts: 90
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Post by cgyguy on Apr 11, 2014 21:22:56 GMT
Continuing with O&GEngg point, what about if there is a public holiday during, let's say, your three weeks repat holiday? Are you also counting that day as a holiday and thus subtracting it from your 38 days?
This is news to me! I was happy to see that, as Canadian, wouldn't be losing holidays with the change but adding 2 or 4, as I have 20 working days (and the weekends in between) plus 19 flex days plus the public holidays (10).
Humm, can someone already there can please clarify.
Thanks
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Post by David_and_Nita on Apr 12, 2014 1:27:44 GMT
It probably makes sense to whoever wrote the policy. It's definitely calendar days not working days. We just look at it as ~ 6 weeks off + holidays.
So, on the short leave strategy: Policy, as I recall, required that you have to take a minimum number of days for repat - as I recall it's 18? vacation days (Painter-help-I never took a 'minimum' repat) which means the minimum number of days out of kingdom would be the first weekend (2) + travel days (2? I really don't remember) + minimum number of vacation days (don't remember that either) but it ends up, as I recall, being about 3 weeks minimum out of kingdom, more or less.
The rest of the vacation days can be used for short leave. They do push you to use your vacation. Policy changed in 2011 or so where carryover from year to year was limited to 10 days.
Public holidays definitely don't count against vacation days. If the holiday falls in the middle of vacation the weekends associated with them, as I recall, do count.
Hope that helps
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Post by liko1001 on Apr 12, 2014 11:43:14 GMT
I'm pretty much in the same situation as O&GEngg and cgyguy; my initial understanding was that it's 38 working days + 2 travel days (in my case) = 40 working days. I am European, and probably better off in terms of regular vacation compared to you guys from North America (don't know the differences between the US and Canada in that respect) as I have 6 weeks of vacation right now and about 10-12 public holidays each year + a number of flex days. So, if it's not working days but calendar days, I will most likely be worse off than I am right now (considering the regulations regarding duration of repat leave etc.). Also, I don't care too much about the local public holidays, because that would in the best case mean a one day longer weekend going to another ME location.
So here's my question: what's the working hours policy of Saudi Aramco?
Strictly from 7 am to 4 pm with 1 hour lunch break?
Are there flexible working times possible and get some flex days off during the year that could be used like vacation days?
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Post by David_and_Nita on Apr 12, 2014 15:25:29 GMT
To my knowledge there are no flex schedules offered for the 5-8 employees.
Sounds like a tough choice for you guys. Best of luck either way.
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Post by UmmRiyam on Apr 13, 2014 15:26:17 GMT
regarding the vaccines, if you child is up to date on the vaccines according to the USA vaccine schedule, then it is unlikely they will need more. If your child doesn't have the required vaccines, you can get them in the clinic. If it's a series that's required, like 2 shots of the same vaccine, then they will require that you have started it and then you will need to follow up with the school nurse. The only exemptions Aramco allows are true medical exemptions...there's no personal or religious exemptions.
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Post by JeffSteiner on Apr 13, 2014 16:01:56 GMT
I would like to offer an unsolicited comment about the vacation days conundrum expressed here...there is to more this adventure than just days off! I could illustrate by pointing to the repatriation allowance itself which is on TOP of the days off. I could also point to the very much reduced cost of accommodation, the general proximity of European, African, and Asian destinations from which to choose AND the fact that we Canadians and Americans are going to get an extra 4 days total for repatriation turn-around. The existence of a policy regarding how the days are calculated or charged and then objecting to it is, in my refreshing and humble opinion not dissimilar to objecting to the fact that women may not drive. "Thems the rules, friends."
I have read a number of posts from contributors, moderators, and experienced ex-pats who are far more aware of the whole picture than I and the prevailing sentiment is that each offer is just that, an offer. Presumably made specifically for the individual concerned as an inducement to join, live, work, and thrive in Kingdom. If the commute, the housing uncertainty, the strict religious culture, or the general diversity cannot be offset by even some of the perquisites that I and others have listed...well, maybe, this is not the right choice.
End of rant people. I am expressing an opinion -- my opinion, true -- but not a unique one, I don't believe. I am very happy with the opportunity, the compensation, and the potential for adventure. And maybe that shows in the bulk of my monologue. Please do not take offense with my generally positive nature!
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