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Post by thundermc on Jul 13, 2023 21:03:13 GMT
Hi all,
I wondered if current expats in Aramco could give their views on how Saudization is having an impact over there?
Is this a real threat to expats job's in the short/medium term?
It's interesting to see Aramco currently recruiting a significant number of expats with the Saudization element running in parallel in the background.
It's a particularly important factor to consider for international professionals that are currently in the decision making process of being hired by Aramco / moving to Saudi..
Are potential new Expats supposed to expect Aramco will replace them by Saudi nationals in only a couple of years? It can definitely be a deal breaker for people who are quitting their current jobs in their home countries and move their families to go work for Aramco in KSA, it's a big commitment.
There is obviously never the certainty of keeping any job forever but it's a completely different thing to commit to a project knowingly that your employer is actively working towards replacing you by Saudi nationals in the short / medium term.
Cheers
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jrs
Senior Member
Posts: 379
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Post by jrs on Jul 14, 2023 7:08:44 GMT
I wouldn’t worry about any active expat requisitions or recent expat hires of being replaced by Saudis in the near or long term.
Aramco is not going to hire an expat then replace w/ a Saudi a few years down the road. The company is not that shortsighted. If there were qualified nationals available for expat roles, then Aramco would hire them instead of a foreigner. There will always be a reliance on expats by Aramco for certain roles. I don’t foresee that reliance ever going away.
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tamsin
Senior VIP Expat
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Post by tamsin on Jul 14, 2023 8:21:20 GMT
You can’t just magic up 20 - 30 years of experience, and some roles require that. I do think that people in their late 30s now are the last generation of widespread expat working in the O&G industry, all countries have been moving towards that over the last 25 years.
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Post by BlueStaff on Jul 14, 2023 12:52:11 GMT
I wouldn’t worry about any active expat requisitions or recent expat hires of being replaced by Saudis in the near or long term. Aramco is not going to hire an expat then replace w/ a Saudi a few years down the road. The company is not that shortsighted. If there were qualified nationals available for expat roles, then Aramco would hire them instead of a foreigner. There will always be a reliance on expats by Aramco for certain roles. I don’t foresee that reliance ever going away. I hate to burst your bubble, but Aramco did just that around 2016 or so when the oil price crashed. Something like 700 expats were finished up with their 3 months notice and all relevant payments in one fell swoop. Following that there was a huge lull in expat recruitment until just last year. As an expat you are there to fill a specific role - if and when suitably qualified Saudis become available then there is a fair chance you could be replaced unless your skill set is super, super good. |
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Post by darthmole on Jul 14, 2023 13:24:57 GMT
I wouldn’t worry about any active expat requisitions or recent expat hires of being replaced by Saudis in the near or long term. Aramco is not going to hire an expat then replace w/ a Saudi a few years down the road. The company is not that shortsighted. If there were qualified nationals available for expat roles, then Aramco would hire them instead of a foreigner. There will always be a reliance on expats by Aramco for certain roles. I don’t foresee that reliance ever going away. I hate to burst your bubble, but Aramco did just that around 2016 or so when the oil price crashed. Something like 700 expats were finished up with their 3 months notice and all relevant payments in one fell swoop. Following that there was a huge lull in expat recruitment until just last year. As an expat you are there to fill a specific role - if and when suitably qualified Saudis become available then there is a fair chance you could be replaced unless your skill set is super, super good. I do not tend to agree, working as an expat in 4 different countries you build your network and bring in your continuous different thinking on the table. Certain experiences are not taught but rather through experience outside the country. Even here in the UK, plenty of Americans contributing significantly to my current "O&G" employer. |
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jrs
Senior Member
Posts: 379
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Post by jrs on Jul 14, 2023 13:54:37 GMT
Good pt - they’re not going to replace or backfill a 15 year sr. petroleum engineer from Exxon or BP with a 5 year experienced saudi engineer from within Aramco or another local company.
Regarding the layoffs in 2016 and 2020/21 during this same time other oil majors were laying off too across NA and Europe including BP, OXY, Chevron, etc when price of oil fell drastically fell. It was more economic reasons for the layoffs in 2016 and 2020/21, not saudization. I believe Aramco also targeted high priced/low productive Saudis not just expats. The pt is no job is guarantee employment - specially in the O&G industry. I don’t see accepting a job with Aramco any riskier then accepting any other major O&G company, except for the inconvenience of relocating back to your home country, if you’re severed.
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Post by BlueStaff on Jul 14, 2023 21:58:36 GMT
Good pt - they’re not going to replace or backfill a 15 year sr. petroleum engineer from Exxon or BP with a 5 year experienced saudi engineer from within Aramco or another local company. Regarding the layoffs in 2016 and 2020/21 during this same time other oil majors were laying off too across NA and Europe including BP, OXY, Chevron, etc when price of oil fell drastically fell. It was more economic reasons for the layoffs in 2016 and 2020/21, not saudization. I believe Aramco also targeted high priced/low productive Saudis not just expats. The pt is no job is guarantee employment - specially in the O&G industry. I don’t see accepting a job with Aramco any riskier then accepting any other major O&G company, except for the inconvenience of relocating back to your home country, if you’re severed. I don't know if a single Saudi forcibly terminated in 2016. The number that sticks in my mind was 690 expats. Most immediately were replaced by Saudis. One of my neighbors was instructed to choose the 50% of expats under him to be replaced! |
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Post by thundermc on Jul 14, 2023 22:26:03 GMT
Appreciate all the feedback.., all very interesting
I would disagree with the idea of it being as stable as any other job, don't think it is when the Co has a specific mandate to replace almost entirely its foreign workforce.
Certainly food for thought for all future expat new joiners.
Cheers
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Post by BlueStaff on Jul 14, 2023 23:08:30 GMT
There is no specific mandate to replace expats. If you perform well you likely are fine. Equally if your position is highly qualified and you have a specific skill set same goes.
There is however a mandate across the kingdom to maximise Saudi employment wherever possible. It has been ongoing for about 5 years and will continue to be rolled out across the kingdom year on year, profession by profession. I don't think they will be replacing senior engineers any time soon.
Strange thread tho, especially on re-reading the original post. It's almost as if the OP is deliberately trying to discoue people from accepting an offer
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tamsin
Senior VIP Expat
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Post by tamsin on Jul 15, 2023 6:43:18 GMT
Appreciate all the feedback.., all very interesting I would disagree with the idea of it being as stable as any other job, don't think it is when the Co has a specific mandate to replace almost entirely its foreign workforce. Certainly food for thought for all future expat new joiners. Cheers I don’t know if you’ve worked in other countries with a lot of oil and developing economy, but it’s standard to get the operation or office up and running with expats who have the skills than gradually move hiring over to trained locals. In the same way western countries have to prove hiring need, it’s economic sense. I’ve never come across redundancies based on it, it’s people leaving of their own accord or something like a massive downturn, 2016, when half the industry went home. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 6:01:25 GMT
In our area we have to employ 60% saudis, that will increase to 80% soon. We have to pay penalties for non compliance and tons of internal KPS to submit, its a bureaucracy in its own right. As other have said, this is from the government, not Aramco. Eventually all professions will be covered and very few expats will remain, that's the direction of travel.
In terms of job stability Aramco was a job for life, it's not that way anymore, but you are still unlikely to be made redundant unless you are truly awful or unlucky (see 2020 covid sackings). Do consider that your labour rights here are not great and you can be let go at any time (see article 80 saudi labor law), that I would argue comes with the territory.
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arcticengineer
Senior Member
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Job Status: Accepted Aramco Job
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Post by arcticengineer on Jul 16, 2023 17:27:01 GMT
If you are a technical senior position, i.e. engineer 1 gc 14 with 20+ years experience, you are unlikely to be replaced if you prove yourself valuable to the organization. While there is a strong push for Saudization, there is a huge gap between the bulk of the workforce that has only a few years experience and senior level expats. What you will face, is a heavy workload as while in some departments they really could use double the number of senior expats, the reality is you'll get a steady stream of PDP's cycled through every six months.
The days of being hired as an expat and putting in 10 years and retiring with a health pension are gone. If you're looking for an experience and are willing to try it for 2-3 years to make a few extra $'s and gain experience in the gulf, consider it. Most likely the frustrations will drive you away before they run you off.
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Post by coyotep on Aug 10, 2023 14:43:48 GMT
I am a GC13 with 13 years experience. I am on the fence about making this decision and all this discussion is pushing me to decline the offer - doesn't seem like the money is worth giving up the career uprooting the family here in the US?
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Post by BlueStaff on Aug 10, 2023 15:54:03 GMT
I am a GC13 with 13 years experience. I am on the fence about making this decision and all this discussion is pushing me to decline the offer - doesn't seem like the money is worth giving up the career uprooting the family here in the US? Do not decline based on the opinion of a bunch of strangers on an internet forum - who may or may not work for Aramco. Read closely the original post - it's almost a "change my mind" challenge designed to be provocative IMHO. If the offer suits you take it. If the offer doesn't, don't. If you are open to exploring new challenges, cultures and experiences accept, if you prefer to sit at home wondering "what would have happened if only I had joined Aramco...." then that's your choice to make, no-one elses. It's also worth noting that Aramco is a relatively calm island in the middle of the storm when a recession hits. I can't think of any other oil majors being so loyal to their workforce during recession - least of all the Western Supermajors. The layoffs a few years back were a one off for whatever reasons management had at the time. One thing is for sure, there are many, many equally qualified and experienced people out there who will take the job. Aramco obviously felt you had something desirable else they wouldn't have made the offer. Ther will be another candidate along soon enough to take it up if you decline. |
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jrs
Senior Member
Posts: 379
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Post by jrs on Aug 10, 2023 19:08:14 GMT
100 percent agree. Don’t let the previous years layoffs scare you off or claim career limited opportunities turn you away. It’s not as bad as some are saying on this board, IMO. I strongly agree a job with SA is more secure than most large US or other western company. Everyone ones situation is different and unique but maybe similar, so you have to make the decision that’s best for your family. We like it here because of the ease and low stress life, travel benefits, the community and overall unique lifestyle. However, like most, if not all, the financial benefit is the big driver for us to come. All that being said, I think you would hard pressed to leave a good job in US without at least 40% bump in salary before accounting for the tax savings benefit. There are lots new hire’s arriving with young families, so seems a little revitalization from the COVID exodus.
To give you some more context, I’m from the US and I’m a rehire. I worked for Aramco from 08 to 13 had to leave for family reasons (regretted somewhat because prob could’ve stuck it out). I came back at the end of 2022 and plan on staying until I retire in 8 years this time.
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