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Post by kalbigrill on May 17, 2022 19:45:57 GMT
Hi all. Interviews have gone well and I'm in the late stages. It's for a role that's non-technical (specialized HR skillset) and the role requires relocation to Saudi Arabia. I have a wife and 19 month baby. Long-term, we are wanting to grow the family by 2 more kids or so. We love travel and adventure and so am reaching out in this forum to hear people's opinions.
I have two main concerns. First is with family. My wife is resilient and loves adventure, but job opportunities will probably be minimal there and she might stuck with the baby and future babies and so I'm concerned about her happiness and sanity levels. She's very social and outgoing. Is there a solid expat community for wives and toddlers? As long as she has community, I think she'll be ok.
Secondly, it's with job security. I'm an Asian American and I've heard that there is rampant racism against Asians b/c they'll see me as a blue collared service worker and will treat me with less respect than my role would indicate. Also, since this role isn't an engineering role, but more of a consultant, I feel like they could cut the role any time they want and it would've been a massive investment to move to the Kingdom and then lose it fairly quickly. I'm in a solid role and my job prospects are great at my point in my career (senior manager level). I've heard the job growth is non-existent and that they'll give the role to a Saudi national as soon as they can and will treat expats terribly. But I wanted to hear directly from people on this forum as it's closer to the source.
Any feedback would be appreciated!
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Post by hadfield on May 17, 2022 21:15:25 GMT
Let’ one by one. I’m here for only one month, so don’t take my word as an experienced member.
First one - Racism: I’m also similar to your case - AsianCanadian and joined in finance (non engineering). I haven’t faced any racism either inside office or in local communities. Here all expats are treated as well paid servants, not many expats will have a say to change or to propose some policy. Some people call it racism, so it’s up to you how you want to define it.
Second one - Leaving current one and joining Aramco: it is a personal decision. The jobs here will not be challenging and the growth will be minimum to none. If you are in senior level, here you will be independent role without anyone reporting to you. The jobs will get bored and dull very quickly. If you can maintain good contacts with your current organization and they can take you after a year, then you can give a try to come here. But many people come and stay (stuck) here due to various reasons. Mostly for financial benefits. Yes, the saudaisation is in full swing, so I don’t have any comments about job security. What I heard is Aramco is not a company who wants to cut costs to survive, they never cut employees to save money (my understanding).
your wife: your worry about your wife is true. There are some communities in the camp, but around 80 nationalities live here, so finding someone that matches our wavelength might be a challenging, as of now my family is not here so I’m not that active in finding or socializing. But if you are planning to increase your family, someone has to take care of the kids, and that will be your wife unless you have a full time maid. But it is very rare that your wife will get a job, though I have seen both wife and husband are working. Better come prepared that she will be staying home. In terms of travel this place is well located and you can do Asia and Europe travel at reasonable prices.
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swan
Senior Member
Posts: 209
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Post by swan on May 18, 2022 19:15:51 GMT
Yes, there is vibrant social community for wives and kids. Very few wives work, and Aramco know that in order to keep the staff, the family have to be happy. You have to out yourself out there, but there is loads of socialising opportunities to be found.
Racism is systematic and very prevalent in KSA. Yes, at first glance you will be assumed to be lowly paid if you are not Arab or white. That is not to say your work opinion wont be accepted, but expect to be searched more frequently on going through checkpoints, bypassed in queues for a coffee in Khobar (not so much on camp). I guess the work side, you will be known for your work, and not your ethnicity. But out and about in KSA propper, you will be assumed to not have a professional job (and hence not be on a professional salary, with the associated massive pay gap between the 2).
I wouldnt say you will be treated terribly, but yes, the aim is to Saudise, and remove expat workers. HR has already been through that process, so if you have a role offered in that area, it must fit the newish regulations.
Only you guys can decide if the salary and opportunities are worth the risk.
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arcticengineer
Senior Member
Posts: 180
Job Status: Accepted Aramco Job
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Post by arcticengineer on May 20, 2022 10:52:58 GMT
Assume your wife will not be able to get employed in kingdom. I was perhaps given some false hope that my wife would be able to get employment as an attorney. Or perhaps I should have read between the lines that the comments that, oh I know some people who their wives work was an exception to the rule. After 2 1/2 years, I'm not optimistic. It used to common and fairly easy for spouses to find jobs in camp. With the Saudization push, all clerical and support jobs are now Saudis. Some spouses find work in the schools as teachers or administrators. Some spouses have side hustles, i.e. unofficial businesses such as baked goods, hair stylist, etc. If her field allows remote work, that is likely her best bet.
As far as racism, I haven't personally seen or experienced it but I'm basically in camp or at the jobsite. I have not seen any difference in how Saudis address expats from different countries at work. Not to say it doesn't happen or there aren't clearly racist Saudis but in my experience they are the exception to the rule. I would also note the younger Saudis are more open and friendlier, but there are many older Saudis that will treat you like family when they get to know you, and some that will never warm up to you.
I am often the only non-Saudi in a meeting and often 1/2 the conversation drifts into Arabic. I could easily take offense at this, but accept it as normal business practice. Aside from conversations straying from Aramco's official business language, I find Saudi's to be respectful and gracious. I do my best to be a respectful guest in their country and find that pays huge dividends in your professional experience.
You should assume your job is not secure, but that holds for every company and country in my experience. Do what you can to be capable of work that others are not capable of doing and make yourself valued, same as any other company.
When I factored in everything, I had a significant jump in take home pay and retirement benefits. It certainly wouldn't be worth the sacrifices for the same money, but when I pencil out the comparison it's worth the sacrifice for a period of years. And that doesn't even include the truly unique experiences such as desert camping with wonderful people from all over the world.
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