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Post by pdn on Mar 8, 2018 16:41:08 GMT
What are the chances that the initial salary offer from Aramco will be so close to the top of the range that after 2 years you are no longer eligible for a raise? Is this a reality? Would a company really make an offer to someone and then stick them no raises after 2 years and not offer a bump in GC resulting in you being locked into a fixed salary for 10 years?
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Post by StarboyX on Mar 8, 2018 17:53:23 GMT
Every salary grade has 4 classes, so if you countered your offer, chances are you moved up a class, not a grade.
As for increases, my understanding is every 3 to 5 years, also dependent on performance and even factors such as M leaves, driving violations, etc;
you'll get a grade increase.
Yes, don't expect a raise or GC increase after 2 years; highly unlikely unless your unit is very small.
Being fixed for 10 years is a stretch and in fact, if you don't get bumped after 5 years, and if this based from performance, chances are you'll be released.
Remember, you need to show progress in reviews; simply coasting for 3 to 5 years and waiting for the GC bump is a quick way out of the company; it shows you haven't grown professionally, you're literally coasting.
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Post by pdn on Mar 9, 2018 8:38:35 GMT
Thanks for the reply and additional details on salary classes. I have some questions on your terminology/time frames as well as some additional question/expectations
1) Can you please explain what you mean by "increase every 3-5 years". Do you mean 3-5 years is avee for a GC increase or a salary class increase?
2) You said "don't expect a raise or GC increase after 2 years." This is confusing me. I would always expect an annual raise base on performance. Are you agreeing that it is possible to be unknowingly be hired at the top class in a GC and be subject to no annual raise for 3-5 years until you are promoted in GC?
3) I understand and can except that the termination benefits stated in the offer are based on estimates and that the final payout may be different. I can accept that my annual performance, investment return and even the global oil market may affect my "annual merit increase" and hence he final payout. However, I find it difficult to believe that the job offer has "hidden" limitations such as "oh you were hired at the top of the highest salary class" or "there are no GC promotion available for you" Both resulting in "annual merit increase =0" and no bump in GC after 3-5 years, resulting in a 12-15 percent reduction in the projected termination payout.
It seems like you are saying it is impossible for a new hire to find that their salary will be frozen forever after 2 years of service provided they are meeting performance expectations. So regardless of what salary class you are hired into, regardless of the GC you are hired at, if you meet performance expectations then the termination benefits estimated as stated in the job offer will be achievable?
5) Aramco is a big company with a lot of experience hiring expats. Based on reports on other reputable career sites, it seems like the Aramco model for hiring employees with 20 years of experience is to bring them on at the top salary class in a GC and then ignore all of your "projections" on raises, and bumps in GC every 3-5 years and then see who will leave and who will tolerate this change in terms of employment. How can a company possibly make a job offer, that is at the top of highest class in a GC, and then punish that employee with no raise and no chance of a bump in GC, virtually freezing there salary at the offer amount for 10 or more years. If a 48 yo person were hired at GC 15 near the top of the highest salary class then their salary would top out after 2 years. With no chance of a bump in GC (as reported on other reputable career sites) they would be facing the prospect of completing 10 more years with no annual raise. This would impact their projected termination benefits by 12-15% and also set there base salary back 10 years when they look for a new job in their home country. All while their co-worker, who was hired at mid-salary range for GC15 enjoys a 3-5% salary increase every year, meets their projected termination payout per job offer, and has an increased base salary when applying for a new job upon return to their home country.
What would a potential employee do if they accept an offer, mobilize to KSA, meet performance criteria and then find out they have no chance of ever getting a salary increase as detailed above? Is this by design? Is the Aramco hiring model risk based? Are they willing to pay to mobilize and then demobilize a employee hired at the top of the highest salary class after 2 years if that person won't resign themselves to working for 10 more years with no pay raise?
7) Maybe I'm missing something here. Do you think the reports of no raise and no GC bump on other career sites are employees who were coasting? If you are hired at GC 15, highest salary class, what should your expectations be?
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Post by StarboyX on Mar 9, 2018 16:49:04 GMT
Thanks for the reply and additional details on salary classes. I have some questions on your terminology/time frames as well as some additional question/expectations 1) Can you please explain what you mean by "increase every 3-5 years". Do you mean 3-5 years is avee for a GC increase or a salary class increase? Yes to both; there are more factors than just performance.
It depends on your unit and department, specifically, expats vs locals.
Again, this varies, in terms of numbers, and that is one factor.
Another can M leaves, driving violations, etc.
2) You said "don't expect a raise or GC increase after 2 years." This is confusing me. I would always expect an annual raise base on performance. Are you agreeing that it is possible to be unknowingly be hired at the top class in a GC and be subject to no annual raise for 3-5 years until you are promoted in GC? Why is this confusing you?
This is Saudi, not Canada/US/EU; as expats, we're guests, and already compensated with "overbase" and other allowances.
Again, refer to my 1st point, raises/grade bumps are not just about performance.
Yes, it's possible not to have a raise for 3 to 5 years, until you are promoted GC.
Yes, it's possible not to get a raise annually or every 2 years, or more.
3) I understand and can except that the termination benefits stated in the offer are based on estimates and that the final payout may be different. I can accept that my annual performance, investment return and even the global oil market may affect my "annual merit increase" and hence he final payout. However, I find it difficult to believe that the job offer has "hidden" limitations such as "oh you were hired at the top of the highest salary class" or "there are no GC promotion available for you" Both resulting in "annual merit increase =0" and no bump in GC after 3-5 years, resulting in a 12-15 percent reduction in the projected termination payout. I have no idea about termination benefits, I haven't looked into it nor thought about it as I just got here a year ago.
I know it doesn't kick in until after 2 complete years, that's all.
It seems like you are saying it is impossible for a new hire to find that their salary will be frozen forever after 2 years of service provided they are meeting performance expectations. So regardless of what salary class you are hired into, regardless of the GC you are hired at, if you meet performance expectations then the termination benefits estimated as stated in the job offer will be achievable? Depends how and when you were terminated. 5) Aramco is a big company with a lot of experience hiring expats. Based on reports on other reputable career sites, it seems like the Aramco model for hiring employees with 20 years of experience is to bring them on at the top salary class in a GC and then ignore all of your "projections" on raises, and bumps in GC every 3-5 years and then see who will leave and who will tolerate this change in terms of employment. How can a company possibly make a job offer, that is at the top of highest class in a GC, and then punish that employee with no raise and no chance of a bump in GC, virtually freezing there salary at the offer amount for 10 or more years. If a 48 yo person were hired at GC 15 near the top of the highest salary class then their salary would top out after 2 years. With no chance of a bump in GC (as reported on other reputable career sites) they would be facing the prospect of completing 10 more years with no annual raise. This would impact their projected termination benefits by 12-15% and also set there base salary back 10 years when they look for a new job in their home country. All while their co-worker, who was hired at mid-salary range for GC15 enjoys a 3-5% salary increase every year, meets their projected termination payout per job offer, and has an increased base salary when applying for a new job upon return to their home country. A 48 year old has limited time, 12 more years, until age 60.What would a potential employee do if they accept an offer, mobilize to KSA, meet performance criteria and then find out they have no chance of ever getting a salary increase as detailed above? Is this by design? Is the Aramco hiring model risk based? Are they willing to pay to mobilize and then demobilize a employee hired at the top of the highest salary class after 2 years if that person won't resign themselves to working for 10 more years with no pay raise? Yes, they can and will.
I know of people who didn't pass the 6 month probation; families were brought over, children sent to boarding school, yet, still terminated.
I don't know what model, if one exists, you're referring too.
7) Maybe I'm missing something here. Do you think the reports of no raise and no GC bump on other career sites are employees who were coasting? If you are hired at GC 15, highest salary class, what should your expectations be? Yes, you are missing a lot here:
You need to understand something: expats are hired b/c the roles can't be fit locally.
If and when they are, you're usually gone.
When it comes to raises/promotions, don't expect to get fast tracked as back in the West; it just doesn't happen that way for expats.
There are reasons, specifically related to our performance reviews; once you're here, you'll understand how it works.
I don't know what you've read on other sites, however, I recall what I read last year, and it was mostly speculation or disgruntled ex or current employees.
As for oil speculation, again, the company has a lot more to offer than just oil; yes it's the core business, but Aramco positions itself as technology company.
There are 4 different payrolls here: American, Global, Asian, and Saudi, and the remuneration and overall benefits vary for each.
As for GC15, if you come in on that, I don't know ... but I do know from others that as your progress to GC15, things become much more compeive and cut throat. If you want to last here, don't push GC15 or above; GC12 to 14 is comfortable zone.
This punishing for 10 years you're talking about ... I don't know what you've heard or read, that's extreme.
Bottom line, this is NOT a company you can expect to progressively advance in your career, moving up the ranks so to speak.
It never has been for expats, hence, they stay here as long as they can, cash out ESOB, and move on.
I have expat friends who have been here 3 to 6 years, same position; I assume they got a raise and bumped a grade.
In all honesty, if you're coming just for the money and quick advancements, you're going to have a hard time here.
Furthermore, things are quite dynamic and fluid these days for a variety of reasons, and its constantly changing.
To be blunt, most of what you've read before or heard from others is old news; the company has taken a new direction over the past few years.
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Post by pdn on Mar 11, 2018 6:43:52 GMT
Actually the question is not about advancement but annual performance raises. If Saudi Aramco is not going to give annual performance raised then when you return to your home country you will be going back to your old salary level that may be 5 or 10 years old. This is the point. The need to be honest and state in the job offer you are being hired with no chance of salary increase, instead of waiting to tell you that after you start the job.
What is the new direction Aramco has taken in the past few years?s
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Post by omega on Mar 11, 2018 15:56:23 GMT
You may want to consider telling us more about your case e.g. what GC, which job position, how can you be sure that you are at the top of your range etc Such information will allow people to better understand your case, relate to real examples that we know and offer subsequently our 2c.
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Post by swiftandsure on Mar 11, 2018 16:09:51 GMT
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here re salary raises if you reach the top of your Grade Code.
You DO still receive a raise, at a percentage relevant to your appraisal (PMP) rating. But you receive that raise as a one off payment.
What that means is that your Overbase and Monthly Benefit Supplement do not increase, but you still get the pay rise.
It is very unlikely they would bring anyone in at the top of the GC or even a couple of years away from top.
Current policy is that you stay in your post without promotion for 4 years, so worst case scenario you might have one year of a pay rise, but no increase in the associated things like overbase. But this is rare.
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Post by StarboyX on Mar 11, 2018 19:55:29 GMT
Actually the question is not about advancement but annual performance raises. If Saudi Aramco is not going to give annual performance raised then when you return to your home country you will be going back to your old salary level that may be 5 or 10 years old. This is the point. The need to be honest and state in the job offer you are being hired with no chance of salary increase, instead of waiting to tell you that after you start the job. What is the new direction Aramco has taken in the past few years?s I think the answer to this is subjective, based on existing experience, existing and/or acquired education, position itself, and of course, point of origin.
As for being honest in your job offer, no one said there is no chance of a salary increase, ever. |
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Post by vpainter on Mar 29, 2018 16:13:32 GMT
Most employees receive a yearly raise of some sort and amount. It may be a one time bonus type or it may be a base increase. Yes raises are based on more than job performance as Starboyx has stated.
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Post by rockist on Apr 8, 2018 6:46:08 GMT
Fully understand it's a Saudi company, and surely different from western style management. Just being curious about the company culture, what other elements are considered in the performance review? Well aware that satisfactory coaching/mentoring local technical staffs is part of the job. What else?
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Post by StarboyX on Apr 8, 2018 13:56:17 GMT
Visibility : what have you done that contributes to your unit, department and makes your management look good.
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Post by rockist on May 6, 2018 15:23:13 GMT
Thanks, StarboyX.
Great insights! From my experience, the similar works for major IOCs, however treated more implicit than explicit.
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