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Post by himni on Sept 30, 2015 15:51:28 GMT
Hi, all. I've learned a tremendous amount by reading this forum over the past couple of months, and now that I've officially received my offer, the real work begins I have a couple of questions for anyone with more than 4 kids, or otherwise knowledgeable about schools and large families. I will be bringing 4 children to KSA and leaving two high school aged kids back in the States. Is the Education Assistance Plan available for 4 dependent children total, or 4 children at a time? Of the four children coming with me, only two are school-aged at present. If I use the EAP for my high-school aged son back home for his last two years of high school, could I still use the EAP for all four younger children in Kingdom as they reach the appropriate age, as long as no more than four children at a time use the EAP, or is the EAP limited to the use of four children total over my employment? Similarly, if I had another baby in KSA, could that baby also attend Aramco schools, as long as no more than 4 use the EAP at once? A related question: am I eligible to receive a Repatriation Travel Allowance for 4 children and also an EAP Travel Allowance for my older two children in Houston, or am I limited to four travel allowances combined for EAP Travel and Repatriation Travel? If anyone knows or has experience in this regard, I'd love to hear your thoughts. By the way, yes, I am originally from Utah. :lol: And, my youngest child is ten days old. You could say it's been a busy couple of weeks for our household. I look forward to seeing some of you soon, presumably in Rakah.
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stmayo11
Senior Member
ExPats Community Moderator
Posts: 159
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Post by stmayo11 on Oct 3, 2015 8:22:24 GMT
EAP policy has changed. Family status expats hired on or after March 1, 2015 are under the new rules. Those hired before March 1st are grandfathered under the previous rules.
The new rule: There is an employment lifetime limit of EAP benefits for family status employees for UP TO FOUR (4) dependents who are regular members of the employee's family and household. Education costs for additional dependents are the employee's responsibility.
In other words, it appears as though one can claim EAP benefits for not more than four dependents during your employment with Aramco...the 5th and any subsequent children's education costs are the employee's responsibility. EAP benefits are no longer offered to more than 4 children.
My opinion: Past policies encoued large families which cost the company a lot of money in a number of ways (more seats in schools, more housing required, increased payments in repat travel benefits, more EAP school/travel costs, etc.) Present economic realities, a constant shortage of housing, increasing SAES student enrollment and a few employees attempting to "game the system" all likely contributed to the change.
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Post by himni on Oct 7, 2015 15:22:28 GMT
Thanks for the info! I'd only have to fund Child 5 for three years. But yes, I hope it's a wonderful experience and we stay for many years. We have an ETA of late December and are just working through all of the contingencies.
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Wutz
Senior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by Wutz on Oct 9, 2015 3:16:41 GMT
My understanding is that the limit is for four children max receiving EAP, not four receiving school benefits in general. But I have not paid close attention to the wording.
Providing education benefits to large families entails a large cost to the company, whether through EAP or through Aramco Schools. That cost to the company is not directly related to the benefits to the company, and I guess they are taking measures to address that.
Wutz
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FPEPRO
Advanced Member
Posts: 58
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Post by FPEPRO on Oct 9, 2015 6:30:36 GMT
Wutz,
Truthfully, I can't say I'm 100% sure about anything here at Aramco. My documents only clearly state that relocation benefits are eligible for two adults and four children. It also clearly states the the EAP is available for a max of only four children. Further, it doesn't actually address a limit on the number of children at an Aramco school. So I'll admit that the paperwork is greatly lacking in detail. But I've already figured out that some of what I was told was actually incorrect. So, if you find out otherwise, and get it in writing, then please let everyone here know. I'm not quite at the point where this issue is a problem for my family, but one day soon I may be.
-CT
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stmayo11
Senior Member
ExPats Community Moderator
Posts: 159
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Post by stmayo11 on Oct 9, 2015 17:04:42 GMT
My original post above says "There is an employment lifetime limit of EAP benefits for family status employees for UP TO FOUR (4) dependents who are regular members of the employee's family and household." It is a lifetime limit.
The claiming of EAP benefits has no bearing on whether or not the employee's other kids can attend SAES schools. The below is my understanding of how the new policy would apply to new employees with more than 4 school-aged children not grandfathered under the old rules...
Example #1: A new employee with 6 children comes here. This new employee can use EAP benefits to send up to 4 kids maximum to Boarding schools for the employee's career at Saudi Aramco. That would not preclude the employee from enrolling all of his children (all 6) in SAES while they are of elem. and middle school ages. However, when kids 5 and 6 get to boarding school age (after 9th grade here), the employee has some decisions to make. He can send them back home to public schools for free, or pay up out of pocket to send them to a private school. Aramco will no longer pay EAP and school-related travel benefits for children #5 and 6, etc...
Example #2: New employee has 5 kids and he and his wife are certain they are not going to have more children. #1 just finished 9th grade in US. #2 is going into 7th grade. #3 is going into 5th grade. #4 is going into 2nd grade. #5 is a 2-year old at home.
Kid #1 going into 10th grade. He can go straight to boarding school and claim 3 years EAP benefits for child #1 in the lifetime max. EAP benefits remaining = 3 kids. OR...if employee can figure out living arrangements for this child and let him finish 10th,11th and 12th grades at his school, they can keep EAP benefits eligible for kid #5.
Kid #2 going into 7th grade will enroll in SAES and be eligible for 4 years of EAP benefits starting in 9th grade.
Kid #3 going into 5th grade will enroll in SAES and be eligible for 4 years of EAP benefits.
Kid #4 going into 2nd grade will enroll in SAES. He will be eligible for 4 years of EAP benefits.
Kid #5 can enroll in K4 and kindergarten at the age-appropriate time, and then attend SAES through 9th grade at no charge. If kid #1 used EAP benefits, this kid is the financial responsibility of employee after 9th grade and no additional EAP benefits remain for this employee as his lifetime maximum of EAP benefits was reached with kid #4. If, however, employee found a way for kid #1 to finish out his high school back home, 4 years of EAP benefits remain for kid #5.
If I'm wrong on these scenarios, someone please correct me.
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Post by bogiefrommuskogee on Oct 11, 2015 4:36:39 GMT
For new employees facing the prospect of immediately putting one or more children in boarding school, be aware that things might not always work out as you planned. Kids raised in Aramco schools are programmed from first grade that boarding school is in their future and this is continually reinforced as they progress through the grades. By the time they reach 9th grade, most are excited about going. Even so, boarding school can be a big adjustment for a 14 YO. Some do not succeed and have to come back to Saudi but this is a small minority. Most do quite well. For 14 YO never having thought of boarding school and suddenly finding themselves in one might be a hard transition especially when they know their family is half way around the world. I have one daughter who really struggled her first year and another who hit the ground running. We had a guy who came to work here on very short notice and his daughter, who had planned to graduate with her class, suddenly found herself in boarding school for 12th grade and it was really hard on her.
My point is don’t just look at the economics. Also consider the human factors for both you and your children. Boarding schools are not cheap so having to take that hit on your own account right away may also be difficult so you might want more time to take that on even though it might cost more overall.
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FPEPRO
Advanced Member
Posts: 58
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Post by FPEPRO on Oct 11, 2015 15:22:21 GMT
Since I'm just starting to settle into KSA right now, I'm curious why more don't choose DHS. Is there any issues with that school? I know it's many years off for my kids, but my wife is having a huge problem swallowing the idea of sending the kids away at 14/15. We still have many years to warm up to the idea, because honestly I'm not so sure I'm big on it either... But I've heard mixed comments about DHS, and I was wondering what the general opinion of it is for high school. -CT
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Post by bogiefrommuskogee on Oct 12, 2015 1:21:28 GMT
I believe it is generally good. The problem is that Dhahran does not have a lot to offer teenagers in their spare time and there is plenty of it. Idle hands and all that. It was hard for us to send our children away but I know it was the better option. When they visit and see old friends who stayed, they are happy about boarding school too.
About the only activities available for teenagers are golf and horse riding/dressage/jumping or whatever they call it. I think a horse costs in the range of $10,000 but there may be a long waiting list at the Hobby Farm as space is limited. It also costs something like $500/mo to maintain the horse there but this is probably one of the best things kids can get involved in. If this is something of interest, I recommend you get an associate membership at the Hobby Farm. No horse required and you can get on the waiting list or be first to know when a horse/stall comes up for sale.
Golf is also a great activity but I can count on one hand the number of kids that play seriously and practically live on the course. I think a couple of kids have gone on to Saddlebrook Prep School because they hope to turn pro someday. Living on camp makes it easy to buy a golf cart. Oddly enough a new one of those is also about $10,000 but used ones come up for sale occasionally. Unfortunately it is a seller’s market. Due to limited shed availability at the course, most carts are parked at peoples’ houses. Some people who live off camp park them at a friend’s house on camp. People less than 14 YO are not supposed to drive carts either on the streets or on the course but there is no enforcement of the latter as long as the child is being responsible and this is managed by Recreation. Driving on the streets to get to the course is managed by Security and they may or may not enforce it. Never driver a cart on the street in Dhahran without a golf bag on it. Even adults will be stopped for that. In the other communities, golf carts are just another mode of transportation and it is common to see a dozen or so parked at the commissary. Some people drive them to work in those communities.
Dirt bike riding is currently an option but the available land is disappearing quickly.
With regard to boarding school, if your child already has good study habits, they should transition easily. If your child must be constantly reminded to do homework, hard to wake up to go to school, etc. then they will have a much more difficult time. Most boarding schools do not allow tests to be retaken if the student flunked. That can be a wake-up call for kids used to the SAS system. A fairly large number of moms leave when kids get high school age and live with the kids who go to public or private school in their home country. Of course there is no EAP benefit but they prefer the holistic approach. Tough on dad though.
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Post by himni on Oct 20, 2015 20:58:56 GMT
Thanks all, for your replies. I've gotten a bit more information from the company, and it is my understanding that the EAP and use of Aramco schools are completely separate. Also, the EAP is a lifetime benefit. I was also told that there is a max of five children living with you in kingdom without an exception. I'm at four and could see myself going as high as six, but it's too early to worry about that, since #4 is just a month old. :lol:
Orientation in Houston on November 2 and then hopefully in KSA just before the end of the year!
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Post by vpainter on Oct 23, 2015 13:32:32 GMT
Dhahran High School is a college preparatory high school. It is a good school and they provide activities for the students who attend there, if the student will get involved. Those who don't get involved with the activities, find themselves without much to do, except the golf and horseback riding.
Although, there is a Recreation Center for high school students in Dhahran and Aramco has a full time employee who opens the center and runs activities for students in high school. Yes, it is very much more active when the boarding school students return for a visit, but it does have activities for those living here, again if they will get involved. The man who is over the student center is wonderful with the students. I know him personally and our boys and daughter were involved with the activities when they were here. (my 4 kids are all adults now)
Why don't more kids go to DHS? Prior to 2000, there were no high schools here. All expat students when they reached 10th grade, had to go to boarding school. The Jr. High School here in Dhahran and other Aramco compounds are all very good at promoting going to boarding school. DHS usually is also at the presentations, but boarding schools are really pushed. When we arrived in 2001, boarding school parents bad mouthed DHS without knowing a thing about the school, for whatever reason. This practice continues today, again for whatever reason. Yes, our older son went to DHS for a year, our friends' kids went to DHS and graduated there. They all received an excellent education and were accepted into the University of their choice - before our son went, I went to the school and saw where the entire senior class had been accepted into colleges and most of the kids were accepted into all the schools they applied to - private and public universities all over the world, Ivy League universities, etc.
[Since you will want to know why only a year: For us, the reason our boys did not both go there, was our youngest wanted to play baseball in college. That is the one sport here that stops at Little League age. We returned our boys to the U.S. TX public school system where they finished high school. (FYI: Yes, our son was recruited by a University to play baseball) Our daughter was in her Junior year (April) of High school, so the wife and kids did not follow until after she graduated the following year - it was the best choice for our family. Our oldest son was already in college.]
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Post by himni on Oct 23, 2015 15:53:05 GMT
Thanks, vpainter! I appreciate all the time you spend making thoughtful replies on seemingly every thread.
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FPEPRO
Advanced Member
Posts: 58
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Post by FPEPRO on Oct 24, 2015 10:02:21 GMT
himni,
I highly question that five child limit in Kingdom (I would get a written verification of that). There are numerous families here exceeding that currently. The compound housing rules also don't support that. A 4 bedroom house is reserved for families with 4 to 6 children, and a 5 bedroom house is reserved for families that have 5 to 8 children. It's a clear and defined rule here. I have a hard time believing the 5 child limit. But I must say those 5 bedroom homes are very hard to come by... -CT
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Post by himni on Oct 28, 2015 16:30:02 GMT
FPEPRO,
That's nice to know. I'd love to get a 4-5 bedroom home eventually. We are planning on 3 br plus a study and will be pleasantly surprised if something larger becomes available later on.
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