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Post by vpainter on Nov 23, 2013 3:02:53 GMT
Many women go out in pairs and groups. There are quite a few who are comfortable going into the local communities alone by bus or taxi, I know several. Other ladies I know do not feel comfortable going alone by taxi or bus, some have fear (a fear for whatever reason that is real to them) most of the ladies I know feel safe going into town. Others do not like how the men look and stare at them and they feel uncomfortable because of it. There are not many occasions where it is due to in appropriateness towards them. Most inappropriate behavior towards women come from the Hai'a when they want to force a women to wear an abaya or cover their heads. Expat women each have to come to their own decision on what makes them comfortable when going off the compound. As long as you are dressed conservatively, there is no need to cover up. You may get confronted, the question is are you ok with that. Some are, some are not. It is an individual decision and feeling.
Some women feel they must wear an abaya and some feel they must wear it and cover their heads when they leave the compound. Each decision is ok and a personal decision.
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Post by Hadia on Nov 23, 2013 6:37:13 GMT
You will see signs at restaurants saying "Single" and "Family." Single is for men only. Family is for women, married couples, and children. Women are not supposed to be in Single sections. My husband is a native Arab Muslim, so I generally defer to his judgment on where I would feel welcome. He has told me that, with regard to the many hole-in-the-wall take-out counters, if it doesn't specify Family, then I should assume it's Single only by default. My daughter and I don't go into those places; my husband handles such errands.
Even that hasn't been foolproof, however. Once, at Jarir Plaza, while in the company of my husband, I was emphatically asked to leave a coffee shop counter where my husband was ordering carry-out drinks. The worker told me they had closed the Family section for the day, and I was not allowed in their shop, not even just to wait for our drinks. I wear abaya and hijab outside camp, so it wasn't a matter of offending someone with my attire. Needless to say, I was angry and embarrassed to be sent out to the hallway like an errant child. Because of this incident, I will only go to restaurants or take-outs where there is a Family section or ordering counter that is clearly open.
I would be comfortable shopping in the souk area with another female, but I prefer my husband to escort me or handle errands in that area. I don't like being stared at, and that is indeed an issue.
I would never walk outside the compound for recreation. For one thing, it's more of a highway environment and there is a lot of construction rubble all over. Aside from public parks and beach areas, you don't see women walking around unless they're in a shopping area and just getting around. It is a different culture here, and it doesn't take too long to figure out what is and isn't done here. Ultimately, each expat woman will decide her comfort level in terms of life outside the compound. I generally take my cue from the Saudi ladies. If there's something/place I do or don't see them doing, I do my best to fit in as a guest of their Kingdom.
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Post by vpainter on Nov 23, 2013 17:29:59 GMT
You could take a taxi and walk on the Corniche, a walkway along the gulf. I would walk as a group of ladies, not alone there. There are restaurants along the walk and you could go to dinner and walk for a while.
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Ram723
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Post by Ram723 on Nov 23, 2013 20:24:36 GMT
Thank you all for this information. I understand that it is the choice of non-Muslim, non-Saudi women to wear head coverings or not and that the Hai'a may confront women to cover their heads or something. Do most Saudi women wear the Niqab (with just the eyes showing)? As I understand, some may have their abayas embellished or embroidered, but typically the Saudis wear black abayas and head coverings in KSA, right? Is it usually the international people who wear the more colorful hijabs or head scarves when in KSA? <update: If anyone is interested in learning how to do a hijab with a scarf without pins, someone gave me this link to a how to video: m.youtube.com/watch?v=qReyyD68xQ ... 3Dyoutu.be I should practice more, but if I do something like this and go out, I might add a bobby pin or two...> Thank you ~ |
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Post by Hadia on Nov 23, 2013 20:49:49 GMT
Most of the Saudi women wear niqab, but sometimes you'll see the younger ladies with hijab and no niqab. Black is definitely the color of choice for abayas of Saudis and expats alike, though styles vary. You can buy abayas ready made or have one tailored for you. Saudi ladies wear black hijabs, but expat Muslims wear a variety of style and color hijabs. If you know your regional styles, you can often identify a woman's country of origin by her hijab style and how it is arranged on her head and neck. Increasingly over the past year, there has been a noticeable addition of color in terms of hijab. All sorts of colors and embellishments. Purses and sunglasses are other means of fashion statement for the covered ladies...and it helps the kids find their moms in a crowd of black abayas! One mistake I've noticed with some expat ladies is buying an abaya that is too short or too tight.
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Ram723
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Post by Ram723 on Dec 29, 2013 17:17:38 GMT
Thank you for the information. I would like to seek further confirmation about this:
if there isn't a 'families only' sign, entrance/area in a restaurant (type place, in malls, etc.) is it (culturally) supposed to be only for men who sit in those areas, rather than a place for both genders? As I understand, at least in the mall, women could still order at the counter for takeout.
Thank you!
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Post by Hadia on Dec 29, 2013 21:28:53 GMT
It's usually pretty clearly indicated at mall restaurants where the family and single seating are. For instance, one of our mall Starbuck's has a nice glassed seating area and counter, but it's for men only, even the ordering counter. Women go to a frosted side door where they order at their own counter and sit inside the visually obscured area.
There are also nuances within family seating areas. You can request a fully enclosed or screened seating area to ensure full privacy of veiled women when eating, or you can sit in more of an open area where tables of diners see each other.
Family entrances are usually clearly marked at restaurants, and some have mandatory family counters, and women wouldn't go to the men's counters. If there's only one counter, it's okay for women to use it.
In some stores, there are also separate men's and ladies' cash register lines. I've often found it amusing that, a separate line exists to preserve my modesty and privacy, say, when purchasing undergarments, but then I hand the items to a counter of male cashiers, LOL. Increasingly, however, there are more female cashiers at stores. This is true with grocery stores, as well, where you will find family only lines that sometimes are much shorter than general mixed gender lines. There are separate waiting areas for males/females at medical facilities and pharmacy, however, the social rules that exist during a regular work day might be relaxed on weekends when only one counter is open. Just watch what others are doing and take your cues from them.
It takes some getting used to initially, but once you live here, you'll come to know how the system works, and which lines work best, given your situation that day.
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Ram723
Advanced Member
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Post by Ram723 on Dec 30, 2013 12:14:51 GMT
Thank you. Yes, I have seen lots of separate areas, and I have seen different entrances for Starbucks.
<update: ..what I am curious about is further confirmation that if there is no 'families only' sign, if it's the cultural expectation that it's seating for men...even if the cashier is ok if a woman sits down>
With some cultural experiences and stories, I want to be careful about what I'm hearing or experiencing briefly before truly embracing something as reality rather than solely relying on initial impressions or hearsay.
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Post by Hadia on Dec 30, 2013 19:20:11 GMT
If you're that unsure, simply ask the cashier if there is family seating. I think you're making more out of this than you need to.
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Ram723
Advanced Member
Posts: 69
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Post by Ram723 on Dec 30, 2013 19:53:47 GMT
... in reality probably most wouldn't care if you accidentally/unintentionally break a cultural expectation in a small way. Still, the small experience I think made me feel a different feeling (a little sad) in addition to the simple awkwardness/self-consciousness. But I appreciate the opportunity to have had the feeling that I had...
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Post by Hadia on Dec 31, 2013 11:15:35 GMT
Trust me, if you accidentally sit in the wrong area, a cashier or other attendant will tell you right away. You might also notice hard stares of patrons. You'll get used to how it works here, don't worry yourself over thinking it. You'll have lots of different cultural nuances and differences in how processes work in KSA. Don't worry about this one. Welcome to Saudi Arabia!
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